I almost spit out my drink when I read your comment. But for plinking, they'd be fine. How Do I Choose Good Self-Defense Ammo For My Handgun? This wire is then fed into a machine called a cold header. Between that, some other info on other forums, Winchester's data for a lead flat point, and numbers from loaddata.com, I think I have some to start with. This load chugs downrange at 750 feet each second and functions standard recoil springs with no issue. The 38 Special, practically snubnose 38 Specials, seem to do their best work with bullets right around the 155-160 grain range. If you can follow simple instructions, you can safely load this cartridge. My usual 38 Spl load is a 125 gr plated bullet over 5 grains of bullseye. WAP, WMR, WSF, WSL, 760, 748, 231 and 540 are products of Winchester, Components Div. Minnesota. [.38 Special] is a very versatile and useful round. defensive ammo. Reloading .44 Spl. Red Dot work fine for most 38 Special loads. A longer case, with have a tighter crimp them a shorter one, what will lead to variations in pressure, and accuracy. Here's what the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook says for cast 125g flatpoint for 38 in the powders you mentioned. I like Bullseye in the 38 Special, and it was a consistent performer with the 125 grain bullets. Going up to 3.9 Gr for +P. The same volume of BE will weigh much more than than same volume of WST. Left to right:148 gr. My Hornady 11th edition shows this for 38 Special 158 gr lead RN, LSWCHP and LSWC. Yes, I had no issues with the 38 SPL, but the 32 is just more FUN- especially when I get seven shots of it in a revolver the size of J frame! I used to reload .38s and .357s with 158 grain LSWC bullets over 4.3 and 6.5 grains of Unique. [ARCHIVED THREAD] - 5.0 gr unique with berry's 125gr = .38 Special squibs (solved ! Just got back into reloading 38 special again after a long hiatus with no revolver, and was instantly reminded of what a joy it is to reload. Load it like Trail Boss. If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. DISTINGUISHED LOADS SUCK - Distinguished Revolver loads that don't suck? Therefore, .38 Special +P ammo can be as much as 17.5 percent hotter than standard .38 Special. And Vihtavouris N320 and N321 fall in this range for burning times. I can shoot this load at speeds I cant normally reach with .45. ( customer reviews) $ 10.69 - $ 246.00. I checked out Alliant's website-no data for flat point with the powders I have, but data for Gold Dot HPs for Bullseye and Unique. Any pistol competitions yet? https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t2221-distinguished-revolver-loads-that-don-t-suck. SASS# 85224. 32 H&R Mag 21,000 Your previous content has been restored. Really interested in getting the. accuracy. So I'd think you should find a decent load for short line at about 700 Fps and for the long line at about 800. Horrible 5-12" groups at 25 yds. Recoil is mild enough that for many years it was the golden choice for the next introductory step for young or new shooters after rimfire. each bullet is different for oal due to a crimp groove on most. Interesting. Im not a hoarder and I dont keep them, but I am detailed in my process. In a day you can make over 100,000 bullets. I use 2.8-3.0 grains of Bullseye or AA#2 with 158 gr. (Or so I have heard.). I routinely use only two powders: Trail Boss and Titegroup. There have been guns Ive bought for the caliber, but the .38 wasnt one of those. Thanks for the excellent article, Josh! i use a Lee mold 150 round nose with 4 grains of bullseye crimped into the crimp groove of the bullet. 4.2 gr. The fast powders, W231, HP38, Bullseye would go over pressure very quickly with any slight changes, in seating depth or primer change. Beginners to shooting can use a full size revolver or their carry gun with light to mild loads to become confident and familiar with marksmanship and trigger control. My brother put CT laser grips on his wifes M36. Load shot well out of a variety of service handguns. Anyone that uses a J frame S&W should seriously think about swapping grips, and finding which set works for them. JHP, 158 gr. The Internet Pedant On my J frame S&W without the CT #305 Laser Grips, I swapped out to a Hoque set. Shoot cast and coated bullets and you can go much higher in load and velocity. Reloading Data for .38 Special - Load Data - 1895Gunner. Dennis, I dont reload and Im only 72, but shooting the .38Spl in my 6 S&W 586 is a sublime experience. Insufficient crimping ) ARCHIVED. My M60 came w/ factory banana grips- open back, long enough for pinkie rest but too small in girth behind the trigger guard. A Forum dedicated to the sport of Bullseye shooting, Bullseye-L Forum::Ammunition Discussion, I'm looking for an accurate load using 125gr bullets. Congratulations on spelling loath right. Easy to reload and it started my reloading experience. A 4 inch barrel would be my choice as well. This is not loaded 9mm ammo. The .38 Special's MAP is 17,000 psi, whereas for the .38 Special +P it is 20,000 psi. Similar to a 9mm 124 gr RN Cast Bullet. Bullseye is the classic pistol powder and the backbone of many pet loads. Wadcutters are tailor made for lightweight snubbie practice, allowing shooters to enjoy shooting the pocket guns. I dont mind it at all, though others do and look to similar performing powders that address these things. You have never indicated what barrel length or brand or frame size you may be using these in. Be careful !!!! If you havent taken a look at what the .38 Special offers, youre selling yourself short. I really enjoy Trail Boss and use it extensively for plain lead and plated bullets. It'll look funky, but it will shoot. Hodgdons Clays, International, Universal and HP38 are good choices. Or does the CMP make the rules for DR, and the NRA admins it? Modern .38 spl std HP load is more than enough, dont over think it. I will always love the 38 SPL (never cared much for 357 Mag), but that 3 seven shot Charter with both 32 S&W Long and 32 H&R Mag is truly the bees knees. Currently using Titegroup, but started out with, and loaded many thousands of rounds, with Bullseye. For those folks shooting a lot of lead bullets, invest in a Lewis lead remover. Its hard to find those swaged SWCs and hollow point bullets anyone; it seems everyone is only interested in hard cast for velocity and penetration. want me to write up an article about 3d printed .38 special bullets that Ive been working? Read my very long thread about "DR loads that don't suck". Im not recommending that you carry the Bullseye load, but dont feel as if you are going to tactical purgatory for enjoying this load, either. That one Ill keep. 38 special was also my first cartridge to reload, and one of my greatest loves for reloading to this day. 9 mm, .40 sw, 45 acp, .44 mag. Most people have one general power level for their semi-autos due to the fact that the guns wont function with ammo thats not energetic enough to cycle the slide. There is almost no recoil and the student can increase power level when they feel ready using the same gun. I cannot begin to fathom shooting 20,000 rounds out of that revolver! Softer alloys of lead are just easier on the machinery. I dunno. These are put into a large hydraulic press and extruded into a continuous coil of wire. Despite being well over one hundred years old, it still has perfect relevance for todays shooters, both novice and advanced. 25 Auto 32 H&R Magnum 32 Auto 32 S&W Long 357 Magnum 38 Special 38 Special +P 38 Super Auto +P 380 Auto 40 S&W 44 Rem. That being the case, I truly NEED as much ammunition as possible and the ability to defeat soft barriers such as auto windshields, sheet metal, drywall, doors, etc. Any hotter and we get into a recoil issue. When I finally took the plunge and started handloading (FIRST SHOTS WITH HANDLOADING: How Hard Can It Be? Therefore, the conventional wisdom is that they must be loaded to a lower velocity. There are many fun uses for buckshot. The 38 Special Ball round was designed a long time ago to comply with specifications laid down for ammo that was : 1) Compliant with the Hague Accords of 1907 in regard to "unnecessarily" injurious ammunition. Enter to win an FN FAL Rifle. You can always back off to the .32 S&W Long or .32 H&R Mag if you choose to. Not as easy to find brass these days as it is not the most popular round anymore. 158 gr. less to start.) Zero 158 grain swaged SWC, Starline brass, Winchester or Federal primer, 2.8 grains of Bullseye, roll crimp. .38 will take care of nearly any critter that needs dispatching feral cats, raccoon, armadillo, even wait for it. IIRC, I used 4.5 gr of Bullseye under a 125 gr lead bullet for a light plinker, and 5.6 gr of Bullseye under a 148 gr wadcutter (~815 fps, 4" bbl, probably around 750 fps out of a snub). ), I very much wanted to start with some tried-and-true Bullseye loads, but it took an epic scavenger hunt across many months to find a canister of the elusive classic. Traditionally, the max SAAMI pressures were: 38 S&W 14,500 BTW, I wish I had any one of those three revolvers today. And I still think a 158 at 600 beats hell out of a 22 magnum of any stripe. Both are excellent fight stoppers. Bullseye is one of the oldest smokeless pistol powders and still one of the most popular. is limited to either the various Charter Arms models, or as a training/target load in a .44 magnum size handguns. Dec 18, 2011. rattlesnake of a revolver made me bleed. A GI surplus 1911 that puts most loads into dinner-plate sized groups cut 3.8 inches with the classic recipewhich is probably the only time Ive gotten excited about an almost four-inch group! 300 Blackout Fine-Tuning: Finding the Right Barrel Length for Your Rifle. It is also one of the most pleasurable loads a shooter can touch off. I have tested both brass and nickel-plated cases using mild loadings and have not yet worn out a case. Reading the "WARNING" on the site, it states to not exceed the loads published and to start 10% below the loads shown and work up from there. In my time spent with the .38, I have come to greatly appreciate it for what it is and does. are you loading .38 special brass, or .357 magnum brass? Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. 3.7gr WST with Zero 158 SWC did the job for me. VV N320, N330 and N340 are products of VihtaVouri Oy Company Not all guns are created equal. I load it almost exclusively though with either a powder coated or plated 125 grn bullet. Hollow points are not. Normal 38 spell loads for as long as I can remember were never loaded less than 800FPS and I have loaded for revolvers and autos such as my S&W mod 52 that only shoots flush wadcutters. Unsurpassed for .45 ACP target loads. Lucky me. Start conservative if you wish. This is good, because the snub takes a lot of practice to have a consistent capability. It would seem that a 125 grain GDHP is of the same weight and would have a similar profile to what you want to use. If you're looking for a real light load that's easy to shoot, I'd just use WW's data for the W231 with a 125 gr. When I finally nabbed my own canisters of Bullseye, the first load I spun up was 2.7 grains under Hornadys hollow-base wadcutters. Only if you see more than one load, is it less than maximum. I'm still hunting for a DR load for my S&W M19-5. * All PLUS P loads for guns designed for it (20,000 PSI), (Cowboy loads shot in 7 1/2 bbl.revolver no need to reduce), ALL THESE LOADS ARE PLUS P, SPECIAL HOT 21,000 PSI. As an old bullseye guy I've stuck with Bullseye powder for almost 30yearsusing lead bullets. I don't know what bullets you have, but Berry's recommends per their website to use hard cast data for their plated bullets. I'd rather shoot my .45 then. .38 Special (Alliant Data) Warning! Just an FYI. 7, No. Larry Gibson "Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing." Nikola Tesla 01-30-2020, 01:43 PM #9 Mr_Flintstone Boolit Buddy Join Date Jan 2020 Location S&W M637-2 2" barrel I have done it with 38 special and 44 Mag, only to have a lead coated bore that looked like a rusty old drain pipe. I use 3.2 gr Bullseye to push a 125 gr cast along at 750 - 775 fps in the 38 SPL from 5 and 6" barreled revolvers. I started reloading 38 special as my first cartridge 8 years ago when I was 22, soooo.I have an old mans soul? 110gr JHP! . Normal, mild .38 loads work fine with lead bullets. 750-850fps. Initially I shot them out of my Dads prized Smith & Wesson 686 and learned a great deal about double-action shooting and what a truly accurate handgun can do with a wadcutter. Fifty yards of course is the preferred distance. it seems awful confusing, but with time you will be able to interpolate the published data into something that will give you good starting points to work up your loads. Different colors can be used to identify different loads and since bottom of each bullet is also powder coated, there is less lead dispersed in the air at the shooting range. When I say that theres rarely a wrong way to do it, I really mean it. Ok, will the bullet easily pass thru the cylinder throat, if so, you need the next larger size bullet dia. If you have a lightweight .38 or older gun, you may want to start with 10% less than max amounts listed above, and work up to the full loads. Good job on you! Would .44 Special be somewhat similar to .38, in terms of ease of reloading, case life, etc.? While I wish I could carry a 5 .45 WITNESS with several 10 round mags, as a senior citizen, the S&W J frame is my user friendly alternate. I only wish the brass was more available locally. CorBon Self Defense, 38 Special, 125 Grain, Jacketed Hollow Point, +P, 20 Round Box 38125 You can't rely on this because not all variables for YOUR cases and chamber and loading length, etc. The cowboy loads would be good choices as listed, since these ARE reduced loads for that sport, where usually just hitting a metal plate to make a sound is all that is required of the round. It was introduced in 1902 by Smith & Wesson, and has since become a worldwide cartridge. My best group was .9 inch out of a Model 15. Proof of concept with .38 first, then on to 9mm where we have to actually cycle a slide but I think Ive got that problem solved. All newly manufactured .38 Special revolvers must be proof tested to the same higher proof . For those who have issues using auto pistils, due ti arthritis or other medical issues with the hands an LCR or 642 is a great choice. I was hoping I could use this combo to make use of available components. Clays, Universal, HP38, HS6 and H4895 are products of Hodgdon Powders. These are light and easy to shoot. No sh!t. Content . Winchester 231 is between Bullseye and Unique for the .38 special (see my personal load above). Most of these are at the upper end. The instructors worked magic in many cases, but having a load like this to gradually work shooters onto full-strength loads would have been a great tool. Clear editor. ammunition in the same gun enables that shooter to hunt larger game and to fend off beasts that snarl. We've got some great loads for 158 coated and plated semi wadcutters, and we're trying something new. AA#2 is about the same burn rate, but burns much cleaner with less smoke in my guns. 1995-2022. I am aware of the plated bullet limitations on BE accuracy and am more interested in them for their "plinkability". My sq. Nothing, they dont need any. In half a dozen different sixguns, it ranged from accurate to spectacular. 358430 (195 grain) round nose bullet that was used in the old 200 grain police loads as there is always interest in these. i had the same issues you did when i was trying to load for my DR revolver 14-3. to light of power had a soft recoil but ungodly bad accuracy. Reloading supplies and load recipes are available everywhere. Wife handled it with no problem, those 5 Super Vel had been in the gun probably over 5 years by then, she bought it to CARRY, not to shoot, if she needed to fire it to save her life it would be fine. I also find the LCR .357 enjoyable to shoot with all .38s and most .357s. 4.0 gr. As for the load ya the 158gr will probably take a little more, but your gun will tell you how much more.. load is 4.4 grains for 38 special and 5.0 grains is a +P load. Nice thing about reloading is that loads can be tailored for the gun that you are shooting. I'm asking the above questions because I don't want to run too hot of a load, but wasn't sure if it was ok to drop down below 2.8 as far as 2.5. No matter where you look, the first mention in classic loads for the .38 Special is a 148-grain wadcutter over 2.7 grains of Bullseye. Instead, Ive favored things like the K and L frame Smiths (5 screw pre-model 10 and 686 in my case) and Ruger revolvers for higher round count activities. WST is less dense than BE. The only reason that my standard (everyday carry) self-defense handgun is not a .38 Special revolver is because I can conceal a semi-auto better (it isnt as fat as the cylinder on a revolver) and my semi-auto has 15 rounds of hard-hitting 180 grain bullets. NULLI SECUNDUS. As a result, Ive been able to spend far more time practicing with it rather than fussing with it. Using higher pressure loads will wear brass out faster and it will become brittle with time. Have not confirmed the difference with a chronograph. Maybe once a year I would reset everything to load up a few hundred .38 Spl for the wifes Detective Special, then right back to .357. Bullseye Handgun Powders Smokeless pistol powder Billions of rounds have been loaded with Bullseye since it was introduced in 1913. I guess its out of production now- I havent seen it (or heard of it) in years. 38 spl.s. Hornady As you move up in loads, you at least need the gas check on the bottom of the bullet to prevent gas melting the lead and fouling the barrel. I dont miss lubing casescarbide is king! By Using bullets from Hornady HP-XTP, Hornady HP-XTP or FP-XTP, Hornady FP-Cowboy, Hornady HBWC, Hornady SWC-HP, SWC or LRN. Thanks to all for the info. You need a .357 Magnum revolver if you want to try a 9MM cylinder. You will find plenty of Red Dot loads there. 7.8 gr Blue Dot 1,170 fps 1.43" Fed 100 Alliant Suggested starting load: 7.0 gr Pressure: 15,700 4.5 gr Bullseye 1,085 fps 1.43" Fed 100 Alliant Suggested starting load: 4.1 gr Pressure: 14,900 My son asked if I wanted him to help, then fired one shot and handed it back. Ive played with several that I like, but the classic in 9mm is 4.4 grains driving a 115-grain jacketed bullet. Ive been reloading and shooting for over 40 years and love revolvers but 90% of the time my carry gun is a Sig 365 with a 12 round mag and a spare. There seems to be a dearth of information using WST powder for the 38 Spl cartridge. Here's what the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook says for cast 125g flatpoint for 38 in the powders you mentioned. Powder Bul Weight C.O.L. VihtaVuori Oy Company, reloading booklet (1995) Numerous magazine articles on reloading special calibers and personal loads where noted. Bullseye, Unique and 2400 are products of Alliant (formerly Hercules) Powders. A Forum dedicated to the sport of Bullseye shooting, Bullseye-L Forum::Ammunition Discussion. 2) Ammo that would work in the Air Force's Air Crewman Colt's and Smith and Wesson revolvers that had weak alloy cylinders. I had ammo for some friends as low as 600 fps. is so simple. Most DNR (Do Not Reduce) loads are well over 900-fps. 357 Magnum 35,000 Eventually somebody introduced me to tungsten carbide resizing dies, after which case life became near indefinite. I recently bought trail boss and it runs fine out of my 14-3. We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. Others Have reported some success but few have more than one or two loads. They have a large selection about the hard cast loads from 90 to 170 gains. Of course, these will be used in a revolver. The other .38 Special is a 4 Colt Diamondback. I did 400 rounds in one afternoon on my Hornady progressive. The .38 Special is the most popular of all centerfire revolver cartridges. All three of those powders have published load data for that weight bullet in .38 Special. Ive not had a handgun entirely reject either load, so the recipe seems to be a worthy third alongside the previous .38 and .45. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. I shoot almost exclusively cast lead from my handguns. Just want to state for the record, that with one of the more heavy duty Corbin presses it is possible to easily swage some hard cast bullets. .38 special has got to be one of the best calibers there is . 32 S&W Long 15,000 I think you will find since the .38 special is headspaced on the rim your case length is very important to achieve your best accuracy. The use of .38 +P+ level (25,000 27,500 psi) type reloads, in .357 brass. for 38 special Midway has it in stock. IMR 3031 and IMR 4895 are products of IMR (formerly DuPont) Powder Company. Any clues for powder and starting loads???? I am using this load in some .38 specials. Your link has been automatically embedded. I dont see much conversation on these specifics but I think Its all about the size of the explosion in the chamber. In terms of the best stopping power for .38 Special, I personally like 150 grain full wadcutters or 158 grain hollowpoint semi-wadcutters. 5, #2230, and #2460 are products of Accurate Arms Company Required fields are marked *. Agree 100% since I reload and shoot it since years, lost count. That's usually +P power level in .38 Special. 1.) You cannot paste images directly. What are YOU shooting? The mild recoil of the mid-range load is a perfect mate to the .38s that most shooters own these daysthe airweight J-Frame or equivalent. I just bought a Lyman mold 160 round nose with a crimp groove. Even though the gun was chambered for .357 Magnum, I plinked and practiced with a lot of .38s over the years. Powder coating. Most modern revolvers chambered for .38 SPL are rated to +P, so there is room for error, but care must still be taken. Also some WSF. Hodgdon gives starting load of 4.0 grains and 4.4 grains MAX. ES 27 SD 12 Independence 130 grain FMJ round nose MV 892 fps ME 230 ft./lbs. Hornady also has load data for the 110-grain .357 XTP for the lower-pressure .38 Automatic. Main fame for the .38 is now the J frame size revolvers, as a CCW gun. Unlike many other guns Ive owned and carried, this little snubby really cant be modified much beyond factory configuration. You can fit 7.1gr of powder under the 125gn JHP bullet? After making a healthy pile of brass with this load, I am unlikely to ever be without a few boxes of it on standby. Good point Len. Jacketed bullets are not legal for Distinguished Revolver. I like the smell of Bullseye, dont mind wiping the handguns down after a range day, and the dark soot that accumulates on my support hand when shooting wheelguns in particular just reminds me to wash up. Some use powders dispersed in liquids, some use electrostatic guns to spray dry powder on their bullets. True enough that it doesnt make power factor for Custom Defensive Pistol in IDPA or major in USPSA competition. of Bullseye with Lee's 125gr RN mold in a 38 special with so-so accuracy. Since we are working with a gun that doesnt have a magazine, we can afford to mess with this dimension at will. Did you cross post the bullet weight? .38 Special +P (Alliant Reloaders Guide) Warning! You may find it will need to be faster for good 50 yd. +P? Super cheap and easy to make and would likely be a very effective defense ammo against wildlife that might be a threat to me as the two balls will spread an inch or two from each other at close range. I agree with your .38 Special assessment points for the very same reasons. If she had shot more, I would have probably bought another set of dies, to prevent the need for changing adjustments between the two. RN, 158 gr. 38 Special Loads for Bullseye by GerhardG Sun Jul 17, 2022 11:01 am Greetings, Looking for load suggestions for 38 special LSWC 158 grain SNS bullets, red coated based on the following powders; Bullseye, Unique, N310 and N320. Power Pistol won't work for me. Winchester 231 is between Bullseye and Unique for the .38 special (see my personal load above). Coming in 30 grains lighter and 80 fps slower than hardball, as well as being lead rather than jacketed, the 200/4.6 SWC is amazingly soft. Ammunition is available everywhere handguns are legal. And this is a guy who normally trusted nothing but a 45 acp. If you have the means, I highly recommend you trying one out. June 13, 2016 in 9mm/38 Caliber. I went from 2.7to 4.0 gr and nothing to speak of. I once rented a Ruger LCR in .38 Special.
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